Plotting the Division of the Church of England

by Nic Tall, member of General Synod and Secretary of the General Synod Gender & Sexuality Group

If you have been paying attention to the church press recently, you will have a sense of grumblings from conservative parts of the church, disgruntled over prayers of blessing for same sex couples. You may have noticed pronouncements about an “Ephesian Fund” or “alternative spiritual oversight” and wondered what’s going on.

To help explain current movements within the church I will carefully plot the path that has brought us to this point. This reveals a consistent plan to partition the church which stretches back over years. Does that sound far-fetched? I’d ask you to look at the evidence and decide for yourself.

This plan to divide the church, with conservative parishes refusing to share resources with the wider church and turning priests and parishes away from the care of their bishop, goes back to 2016. In the aftermath of the struggle to prevent women becoming bishops, some conservatives who opposed equality for women in the church looked to the issue of sexuality as the next place to oppose progressive values.

A discussion document titled “Guarding the Deposit” was prepared for the Church of England Evangelical Council (CEEC) in October 2016. It considered what would happen if there were moves to support equal marriage or blessing of same sex relationships in the church, and concluded that there would need to be “visible differentiation and division within the Church of England”. The envisaged division took the form of partition within the church, with both affirming and non-affirming Christians remaining within the church but divided into separate provinces. Provinces, in the Anglican Communion, are usually geographic: these wouldn’t be. They would overlap geographically but have separate episcopal oversight.

Following October 2016, the General Synod had a busy time debating same sex relationships. February 2017 saw the famous “take note” debate, when a paper from the House of Bishops was rejected by Synod. This led to Archbishop Justin Welby declaring “we need a radical new Christian inclusion in the Church”. That response would be explored through a new project, Living in Love and Faith (LLF), producing a suite of resources available and inviting the whole church to explore the issues. LLF would take a few years to gather together these resources, but a sense that they might usher in progressive change was clearly concerning some.

It is in this context that the CEEC, following that 2016 paper, began to take those ideas about how to divide the church more seriously. CEEC began to prepare for creating conditions where they could be put into practice.

At its annual Council meeting in January 2019, the CEEC agreed to increase its capacity, seeking to raise extra funds, employ staff and refine options for “visible differentiation”. Until this point its annual income was around £35k, most of which was paid in a grant to a theological consultant. In 2019/20 income doubled to £100k and by 2021/22 it had increased to £176k. The January 2019 meeting also looked ahead on strategic and tactical concerns for the 2020 General Synod elections, another sign of long-term political planning.

Having resolved to significantly increase capacity in preparation for the debates over LLF, the next part of the plan was to expunge any moderate evangelicals who harboured sympathy for those in same sex relationships. So, at the July meeting of General Synod, the Evangelical Group on General Synod (EGGS) amended its basis of faith to include conservative statements on marriage, sexuality and gender identity. This effectively removed inclusive evangelicals, leading to a split in the constituency.

Freed up from any internal resistance that would have come from those inclusive evangelicals, the CEEC’s Council meeting in January 2020 prepared to make bolder steps. The first priority on its plan for 2020 was “Visible differentiation for the sake of biblical orthodoxy: development of Permanent Provision options and proposals from Council; development of Principled Protest; liaison across the evangelical constituency.” It also sought to focus on the 2020 General Synod elections, organising locally through Diocesan Evangelical Fellowships (DEFs). The Report and Accounts from 2019-2020 show that further plans were developed to encourage and support evangelical bishops to “be distinctive”. The intention to create division within the church was starting to take shape, using the sexuality debate as a wedge issue and strengthening links across the evangelical constituency, through local diocesan networks and bringing evangelical bishops on board. This was the first time that “principled protest” had been seen as part of the strategy.

On 26th July 2020 the CEEC published the report “Visibly Different”, 104 pages long and expanding the themes of “Guarding the Deposit”. It spent time working in detail through the proposal for “a provincial way forward”, creating a third province which would be separate from the rest of the church but geographically coterminous. Whether liberal or conservative Christians would be deposited into this third province was a moot point; the critical part of the plan was structural differentiation, with conservatives remaining in the Church of England and enjoying all the financial benefits of doing so.

While the CEEC was drawing up detailed plans for structural division within the church, the LLF project had been steadily developing its suite of resources for the wider church to explore issues around sexuality and relationships, and these were published on 9th November 2020. Six days later, the CEEC unveiled a 32 minute video entitled “The Beautiful Story”, including content from three bishops. This video undermined the content of LLF, presenting just one perspective, and a deeply conservative one at that. It concluded with John Dunnett, Chair of EGGS, issuing a call: “the General Synod elections in summer of 2021 are massively important and evangelicals need to be thinking now about whether they might be a good candidate”. So instead of engaging in open and honest debate with LLF, the agenda was only to focus on conservative perspectives; no others were worth discussing. It was also linked directly to maximising the political outcomes of the 2021 General Synod election.

Moving into 2021, the CEEC looked to expand its capacity further to support its plans, employing paid staff for the first time, appointing an administrator in January, National Director in April and a Communications Director in November. In July the CEEC/EGGS National General Synod Elections Team published their guidance for conservative evangelical candidates in a document not intended for public release, but soon leaked. Candidates were assured that the local DEF would make sure “orthodox evangelicals” would vote for them in any case, so election statements should be aimed at another set of voters: those from the “middle ground”. Candidates were advised to conceal their views on same sex relationships, women’s ordained ministry or abuse within the church, but instead “as much as possible, sound as if you are a practising member of the Church of England”. “Sound as if”? On sexuality the advice was “it might be that it is wiser not referred to… talk about listening positively to and respecting the views of others, even when we find ourselves disagreeing.” A further private document on how to handle hustings meetings was distributed, again maintaining the policy of concealing their true views on sexuality and women’s ministry.

Supported by the resources and organisation of the CEEC, not to mention this deliberate concealment of challenging views on sexuality and women’s ministry, conservative evangelical candidates performed well in the elections. The results saw many independent candidates displaced, along with a reduction in traditional catholic representation, although inclusive candidates supported by Inclusive Church maintained good numbers. Contrary to the CEEC campaign, Inclusive Church had a deliberate policy of transparency, publicly promoting a list of candidates who had signed up to a broad inclusion statement so voters would have clear information to base their decisions.

With the new General Synod formed in November 2021, the subject of same sex relationships was bubbling away under the surface, but with the LLF materials out for use in the dioceses there was little coming directly to General Synod for discussion. The 2022 Council meeting of the CEEC reiterated the strategic priority linking LLF to differentiation, maintaining a policy that pursued division with sexuality as a wedge issue.

Later in 2022, the momentum for change from LLF began to build, with feedback from those having done the LLF course indicating a majority wish for liturgical affirmation of same sex relationships. The House of Bishops held meetings to decide a way forward, with much speculation on the direction they would choose. In this atmosphere John Dunnett, Chair of EGGS and at this point Strategy Director of CEEC, issued a document outlining the CEECs position following LLF. The stance was to oppose any change whatsoever, effectively dismissing the whole LLF project and the ignoring the majority in the C of E who saw a place for some change to better accommodate LGBTQIA+ people. However, if that were not possible “differentiation will become an immediate necessity”. Three different options for visible differentiation were explained, with the preferred model involving “the rearrangement of episcopal oversight, dioceses and provinces.” Liberals would be given the option of opting into a “third province”, with conservatives retaining the remainder of the Church of England and relationships with the Anglican Communion.

Which brings us to the eventful year of 2023. In January, the House of Bishops brought forward proposals for the blessing of those in same sex relationships and new pastoral guidance to replace Issues in Human Sexuality. On 9th February, Synod passed a vote in all three Houses to welcome these proposals, giving the House of Bishops a green light to proceed. This was the signal for the conservative plan to divide the church to move up a gear. Within a week a slick, pre-prepared video titled “We Love the Church of England” was rolled out. It voiced a hope for unity, but also stated that no compromise was possible. The solution presented was “structural rearrangement”, alleged to be desired by those liberals “preaching a false gospel”. Without such an arrangement it was predicted that “we’re going to tear the Church of England right down the middle.” At least five speakers in the video were based in churches that do not accept the ordination of women, and were therefore from the tiny minority of Church of England parishes (less than 5%) who hold to that view. The entanglement between historic opposition to the ministry of women and a wish to divide the church over sexuality was still evident.

On 16th March 2023 the CEEC issued a statement that it was “compelled to resist” the direction approved by Synod, and called on conservative clergy to sign a declaration to join them. The declaration made no mention of visible differentiation, seeking to draw in as many conservative supporters as possible without spelling out the radical plan of partitioning the church.

At the same time as stoking up fear among its conservative evangelical constituency, claiming that Synod’s decision would be “extremely distressing for evangelicals in this country”, the CEEC began to forge alliances with other groups. On 7th July, on the eve of the next General Synod meeting, a long letter raising complaints about the LLF process was published, with additional signatories from the Traditional Catholic group on synod (Anglo-Catholics opposed to the ordination of women), New Wine, the HTB Network, Church Revitalisation Trust and Myriad. Traditional Catholics coming on board was no surprise, as they had also opposed the Synod vote in February and had often sided with conservative evangelicals to oppose progressive proposals in the church. However, the inclusion of some charismatic evangelical church planting networks, particularly Holy Trinity Brompton, was a new addition. It had sometimes been assumed that HTB preferred to keep any reluctance around same sex relationships under the radar, given the diversity of views present within its congregations, as demonstrated earlier in the year by letters to the Church Times from LGBT+ affirming Christians who were HTB members.

But the involvement of HTB and its Church Planting charity The Church Revitalisation Trust (CRT) would now go far beyond being a co-signatory to a letter. On 13th July 2023 a company called “AZ Alliance Ltd” was registered with Companies House, with a stated nature of business being “activities of religious organisations”. The two named directors were originally Sarah Jackson (Chief Executive Officer of the CRT) and Jago Wynne (Vicar of Holy Trinity Clapham, part of the HTB network of churches), with John Dunnett (National Director of CEEC) appointed as a third director in September.

The involvement of personnel linked to HTB would continue, with former HTB Vicar Nicky Gumbel joining John Dunnett, now National Director of the CEEC, at a meeting in Cairo of the Global South Fellowship of Anglican Churches (GFSA) in October 2023. Gumbel (recently awarded the CBE for ‘services to the Church of England’) was recorded as attending on behalf of “Alliance UK”, while the meeting of conservative Anglicans issued a statement with the priority of “re-setting the communion according to its biblical and historic roots”. The statement went on to add “We all know and lament that our Communion has entered into a deep darkness of rebellion to the truth of God’s word.”

In spite of the campaigning by the CEEC to stir up dissent, the General Synod met again in November 2023 and once again voted in all three Houses of Synod to continue the work on LLF, including the consideration of standalone services of blessing for same sex couples. With the CEEC having failed to derail the LLF process, two days after the vote they launched the “Ephesian Fund”, closely followed by plans to create alternative structures of spiritual oversight. These announcements were two pillars of the long-planned structural differentiation, except that they were informal in nature. The Ephesian Fund relied on the fact that payment of Parish Share or Common Fund to the diocese is purely voluntary and cannot be enforced. The aim is that any money entering the fund will only be paid to dioceses with a legal restriction attached; namely that the money can only be passed on to churches committed to a “biblical faith”, meaning those who refuse to use the Prayers of Love and Faith. It is a mechanism to begin the financial division of the church. Arrangements for alternative spiritual oversight would move all discretionary relationships with the diocesan bishop on to an alternative person, such as a retired bishop holding conservative views. While there is no way for a priest or parish to informally absent themselves from legal relationships with the bishop and diocese – such as safeguarding responsibilities – it is intended to undermine the relationship with the diocesan bishop as far as legally possible. These arrangements are currently being described as “a temporary provision which will support evangelicals until a settlement based on structural provision is made available”, a provision which is hoped would be “permanent”.

So, following two votes in General Synod affirming the PLF, and the direction of travel on LLF moving beyond the CEEC’s red line of no change, the plan for division has now been unilaterally declared, seeking to separate the Church of England as far as possible, without formal legal provision agreed through due synodical process.

And here is the most recent piece of the jigsaw, showing the extent to which the plan is being pursued. Rather than waiting for disgruntled churches to contact the CEEC and enquire about the financial and oversight arrangements now being developed separately from normal C of E practice, there is a proactive campaign seeking to recruit churches to this split. A proactive campaign with a deep involvement of The Alliance, Nicky Gumbel and the Church Revitalisation Trust (CRT; as of December 2023, renamed the Revitalise Trust).

I have been passed a document from a church leader dated 11th December which had been distributed to all of their church members. The document states that the leader and his wife had been wondering whether to leave the Church of England due to “the blessing of sin” and “allowing in false teaching”. However, the leader then tells of being approached out of the blue to be recruited to join the Alliance:

Out of the total blue I had an email setting up a phone call with Nicky Gumbel. We are not the sort of people who use our connections to position ourselves near influential people. Though he knows one or two of us from this church, we do not know Nicky Gumbel personally.

Nicky phoned to ask what we were thinking of doing post-General Synod in November, and having listened to our dismay and despair, he then shared what he is doing through the Alliance. We are going to share this with you now, but what we would also add is that following a call with Nicky, we also had an hour’s call later with further updates on some of the detail of the Alliance with the CEO – Rev. Sarah Jackson – of the Church Revitalisation Trust, which is the active agent leading the bringing together and forward motion of the Alliance.

Nicky Gumbel talked to us about his vision to open the Alliance to churches to join.

The vision is to partner nationally by gathering 3000 Anglican churches across the nation, all biblical and all committed to orthodoxy, and together probably representing more than 50% of all English Anglicans. The Alliance will seek to stand in unity as one for orthodoxy.

NG and the Alliance are working behind the scenes to develop legal protections for orthodox clergy, orthodox ordinands and training institutions, they are already working out how to offer orthodox Bishops to provide biblical oversight to clergy and churches, amongst a range of other developments.

It’s all fairly live and quite new, but it was important for us to hear that the Alliance are seeking to ensure that spiritual oversight will be offered by orthodox Bishops, thereby giving spiritual safety for clergy and parishes who cannot “walk together” with false teaching and false practice.

This document was being circulated to the members of the church on the same day that The Alliance wrote to the House of Bishops, asserting that they “are committed to working together with others in the Church of England to enable a flourishing of the whole church for generations to come. We want to do all we can to avoid years of more infighting in our divided church.” However, their actions show that, far from wanting the flourishing of the whole church and a way out of infighting, behind the scenes there is proactive action to split the church, part of a plan for division stretching back years.

The revelation of the CRT as a central element in driving the plan for division is also striking. The CRT has been the beneficiary of tens of millions of pounds of central church funding, delivered through the SDF fund in various church planting schemes. In their answer to Question 32 at the July 2021 Synod, the Archbishop’s Council estimated that between 2014 and 2020 this funding amounted to roughly £50m for projects led by the CRT or for which they were a partner. That the CRT has received such large sums of central church funding to develop its network of church plants, but is now preparing to use that network to divide the Church of England, is a betrayal of the faith placed in them by the wider church.

The CEEC and the Alliance know that the formal structural changes they seek can only happen with a legal underpinning agreed by the General Synod. This is very unlikely to happen, particularly in the current General Synod where a 2/3rds majority in all three Houses would be challenging to achieve on such a controversial plan. Having failed to prevent the introduction of the Prayers of Love and Faith, sought by a majority in the church, and aware that formal structural provision is not currently likely, the remaining option is to divide the church as much as possible through informal means. These informal means are designed to make the split that they seek a de facto reality as much as is possible, such that formal legal recognition will seem a straightforward way out of the impasse. The aim of proactively recruiting a quarter of parish churches and half of the church’s members shows the ambition, perhaps hubris, behind the plan.

I hope this article has documented the long-term factional planning to split the Church of England and alerts the overwhelming majority of church members committed to unity to resist it.

 

 

Comments

60 responses to “Plotting the Division of the Church of England”

  1. Jonathan Chaplin avatar
    Jonathan Chaplin

    Thanks, this is a helpful overview of conservative evangelical responses to moves initiated by progressives to bless same-sex relationships. You say they, or their leaders, have had a longterm plan to divide the CofE. But you don’t say why. Surely from their point of view, clearly stated over many years, it is to defend the truth as they see it (and so they oppose change), just as progressives are defending the truth as they see it (and so they push for change). Might that complicate the analysis?

    1. Pete Jermey avatar
      Pete Jermey

      People who are genuinely interested in truth are not generally skulking about with secret plans.

    2. David Thomas avatar
      David Thomas

      The why is very simple? Corporate raiding, split the church, hive off those who disagree with the CofE into ‘The Alliance,’ then wait for the collapse when the CofE has a fire sale.
      Their plan is always to take over strategic churches in strategic cities, after the collapse, then they feed Alliance members into these strategic churches.
      The Church Plc style of church looks at least a hundred years ahead in its planning.
      One method they use is to tolerate some diverse views in a new church as inevitable growing pains, their method is to side line the people who disagree strongly with Church Plc theology and practice.
      This is done by having special events, weekends away, that the disgruntled are not invited to, (unless they show sings of doubting their commitment to their own views) and to not allow them access to fellowship groups, along with them getting no stage or mic time to talk about their issues.
      As the side lining gets to work, The Alpha Course chugs away in the background, creating new converts and returnees to the faith who are often zealous and obedient to Church Plc.
      By looking a hundred years ahead, Church Plc have realised that non conservative views have a shelf life and without sufficient people in a church to hold them, they eventually die out.
      Another factor is that Church Plc are often very, very nice people, they love bomb you, hug you and sit down with you to talk through your attitude of ingratitude and discuss why you are a moody and sullen.
      Obviously once you have fully converted, they change, because you are now expected to, ‘do the stuff,’ learn and be just like everybody else in Church plc.
      Any problems you have with the faith are now, ‘your fault,’ for not being a good Christian or working out your faith correctly.
      Evangelicals have not forgotten that in past centuries strong evangelical churches, had a change of vicar and went off at a tangent.
      So Church Plc works for the, ‘long game,’ which may explain why it is not easy to see just what their purpose is within the CofE.

  2. Lizzie Taylor avatar
    Lizzie Taylor

    Their pattern of deceiving their electors when standing for election to General Synod mirrors their pattern of deceiving their own congregations, by not informing them of leaders’ views & policies on exclusion of women & on same sex relationships.

    They know they don’t have the general support of their congregations on both issues, so they hide what they are doing. This is a shameful abuse of the trust placed in them.

    God won’t bless the ministry of clergy who try to get what they want by using deceit. 2 Corinthians 4:2 ‘We put aside all secret and shameful deeds; we do not act with deceit…’

    1. Nathan avatar
      Nathan

      Surely it is not the responsibility of the orthodox to restate their orthodoxy to their congegants following every worldly social innovation in society… it is the Christian church after all and not a Jesus themed therapeutic community support group? I think I would argue that responsibility falls on those of heterodox belief to inform their congregants that they have chosen to depart from Christian unity and walk a path inconsistent with tradition and revelation in favour of the World?

      the suprise should be the ministers on discovering their well catechised congregation holds such modernist beliefs… not the inverse?

      1. Pete Jermey avatar
        Pete Jermey

        Nathan

        Particularly on this issue there has been a deliberate attempt to play down or totally hide church leaders views and policy. You may find a few euphemisms in publicly available documents and sermons, but you won’t find it clearly stated because 1 they don’t actually have confidence that their positions stand up to scrutiny and 2 they know they may lose a significant proportion of their congregation if they were open and honest about this. Some might be happy to discuss it over coffee, which can easily be denied or played down later. Few will say it on the record.

        A few months ago there was outage from evangelicals because a group of Oxford students produced a document stating each local church’s position on LGBT people. They don’t want their position to be known, at least not in clear terms

  3. Stephen Spillane avatar

    And to add to this I see Rev Nicky Gimbel has been given a CBE in the New Year’s Honours list for services to Church of England.

    1. Helen King avatar
      Helen King

      Now amended to add that new info…

    2. Dr John Wallace avatar
      Dr John Wallace

      What services – unless you include inventing a theoligally light virtual ‘cult’, which draws the C of E away from its historical roots as ecpresed in ‘the historic formularies of the faith’. For many of us Anglo-Catholics (and I am a liberal), the HTB model and its pneumatology is as far outside mainstream Anglican biblical theology as are the RC Marian doctrines of the Immaculate Coception and the Assumption. It gains traction as a way of getting ‘bums on seats’. My experience of many is that like the seed that fell on stony ground, they spring up, but in the reality of the stress of parish life, they wither and die. I hope no-one will be offended by what I have written. As a nearly 80 year old with many years of experience of parish life, I do feel this needs saying. New year blessings to all.
      Dr John Wallace

  4. Lizzie Taylor avatar
    Lizzie Taylor

    This timeline recording what has happened is really useful. Thank you Nic.
    The ‘plan to divide the [Church of England], with conservative parishes refusing to share resources with the wider church and turning priests and parishes away from the care of their bishop’ goes back even further. The Reform clergy open Letter to the Bishops of May 2010, spells it out.

    It begins ‘we are writing to say why…the consecration of women would be a mistake and would raise for us great difficulties of conscience and practice.’
    It continues, setting out how allowing women to be bishops without ‘adequate safeguards’ e.g. for ‘young men’ entering ministry, will ‘generate the need for new independent trusts whose purpose will be to finance our future ministries…’ This will ‘put a severe strain on our ability to contribute… to diocesan funds.’ The drive for the independent trusts then seems to have begun in earnest in 2012.

    I think even prior to 2010, conservative evangelical clergy have given themselves permission to denounce and defy the oversight of their bishops and our national Church governance structure, and withhold parish share, while also giving themselves permission to keep their reasons for this ‘quietly’ hidden from their own trusting churchgoers. They say they have a God-given duty to lead, even if their congregation don’t agree with them, but then they defy the God-given leadership that God has placed over them, when they don’t agree with it. Logically they can’t have it both ways.

    Thankfully the Church of England is not governed by small but loud groups of people simply demanding and taking what they want.

  5. Mr Benjamin H Mackay avatar
    Mr Benjamin H Mackay

    There is a further issue. The Free Province has come into being already. The Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham. This has meant a free bus pass to Rome for anything disaffected, disgruntled and misogynist to have legitimacy. Pathetic.

    1. Nathan avatar
      Nathan

      Your summarisation of these people you dislike is why they have left. Not exactly inclusive is it

    2. William avatar
      William

      The Ordinariate is not a free province. It is a structure based firmly within the Catholic Church. And rather than being ‘pathetic’ as you call it, it has provided a real home for many Orthodox Christians who wish to play a positive role in furthering the Kingdom. It amazes me why people can’t just live and let live.

  6. Andrew Kleissner avatar
    Andrew Kleissner

    “This plan to divide the church, with conservative parishes refusing to share resources with the wider church … goes back to 2016”. No, much longer – I remember conservative churches such as Jesmond saying that they were withholding their Parish Share right back in the late 80s/early 90s. (Whether they did withhold it, I don’t know).

  7. Michael Rowe avatar
    Michael Rowe

    “A House divided against itself cannot stand,”

    1. David Wright avatar
      David Wright

      Thank heavens for that, the sooner it splits the better.

  8. Spinning in the grave avatar
    Spinning in the grave

    One bit stands out: how do they square having a female priest Rev. Sarah Jackson as CEO of one organisation? Does that not alienate the “we shall not ordain women” faction?

    1. Andy R avatar
      Andy R

      I suspect they’ll just ignore the fact that she’s a priest as long as her role is in the corporation and not at the altar.

      1. Simon Cawdell avatar
        Simon Cawdell

        Hardly. The point you are both wilfully missing is that evangelicalism has a very wide base, and though there may be disagreements about many things (yes including the ordination of women) the coalition that is represented by CEEC and other groups is very substantial. This issue around human sexuality will not be resolved until that is recognised and those pressing for change realise that the objections are not slight, nor coming from what is often portrayed as a ‘tiny minority.’

      2. Helen King avatar
        Helen King

        I’d prefer you didn’t use the word ‘wilfully’. And I’ve always accepted that the objections are not slight, even though I still can’t see why this issue is different from the ordination of women or from remarrying divorced people.

  9. Nicholas Henshall avatar
    Nicholas Henshall

    Thank you for this analysis which confirms what many are seeing locally. Some 40 years ago in the Diocese of Newcastle it was fascinating to see David Holloway, the founder of “Reform” working alongside an openly gay Anglo Catholic to oppose the ordination of women. At that time David seemed fairly clear that whilst of course he was working from a doctrinally evangelical base, his aim was essentially schismatic from the outset. Women priests were simply an easy target just as the new blessing prayers are today.

    It is worth recalling that many of those clergy who eventually joined the Ordinariate (or similar) in response to the ordination of women assumed that their congregations would follow them and were very surprised when they didn’t. In my experience most congregations are made up of all sorts of people with all sorts of views. That is as true in CEEC allied congregations far more than their leadership seem to realise.

    1. Mr Benjamin H Mackay avatar
      Mr Benjamin H Mackay

      I was Pushed over to Rome. I did Not scream or spit in people’s faces. But when I went to Rome, I chose the worst imaginable parish, full of the Worst music I could find. Because I did not want the accusation: “He only went to Rome so he could squawk and scream in The Oratory.” Oh, and yes, before anyone flames me, I am pre-op Transgender m to f

    2. Andrew Brown avatar

      But Holloway, I remember well, was also using the gay issue quite consciously as a wedge against the liberals. He explained all this to me and Clifford Longley in a Westminster wine bar before the Higton debate.

  10. Mark Haddon avatar
    Mark Haddon

    If you choose to read things with cynicism and suspicion you will believe it. This is great evidence of that. It’s the same sort of conspiracy approach that leads people to believe various COVID vaccination conspiracies, new world order, the illuminati, 9/11 was a US government plot, deep-state etc. etc.

    Acting in “love” as you guys so often claim is distinct to revisionism, would require you to approach those you disagree with in good faith and not as you are doing assuming they are some sinister schemers part of some greater conspiracy.

    1. Pete Jermey avatar
      Pete Jermey

      Mark

      There’s been more than a decade of attempting good faith discussion. It’s mostly been met with name calling and demonization.

  11. Nathan avatar
    Nathan

    If you don’t catechise your congregations then why would you expect them to have opinions distinct from the world in which they inhabit?
    It is a clear failure of the church in the transmission of the faith and surely a significant contributor to falling numbers and congregants’ unwillingness to oppose unbiblical innovations that also contravene both tradition and reason and put Christian unity in jeopardy.
    Of course this suits certain factions that identify more closely with the world.

  12. markreilly52 avatar
    markreilly52

    Thank you for a thorough examination of the background to the division now increasingly apparent within the Church of England. In my own congregation, there are those who say that they would quit if ever a blessing were to be offered for a same sex relationship. In another congregation, a couple in house group leadership feel compelled to seek out a more inclusive church in solidarity with friends in a same sex relationship wanting to make a deeper commitment to faith. In my experience, most church members generally dislike and quietly disown their leaders intent on division.

  13. Monica Dyer avatar
    Monica Dyer

    A really useful summary but I keep on thinking: What are they really up to? The secrecy and setting up of behind the scenes organisations feels very American. Also the attempt to use ‘wedge’ issues such as sexuality to gain power has definite echoes in politics on both sides of the Atlantic.
    The people I feel most sorry for are ordinary parishioners like myself (and many of my friends and family) who feel unable to continue to be part of a church that is operating in this underhand way.

  14. Rebecca avatar
    Rebecca

    CEEC is aligned with the Anglican Communion Worldwide. The question to ask here is who has been acting divisively? Is it those who seek change in our doctrine on SS relationships, or those who seek to respond to relentless pressure for change spanning many years?

    1. Lizzie Taylor avatar
      Lizzie Taylor

      Logically, being aligned with the hitherto prevailing view is not the decider on what is right. Think about those who opposed the Reformation, on the grounds that their views were orthodox and aligned with the wider Catholic Church.
      Do you think the Reformers were wrong for seeking the change?
      Were the Reformers acting divisively?
      Or were they making the case for Christian progress?

      1. alancossey avatar
        alancossey

        Without me arguing on whether same-sex sex is OK or not, may I point out that your point about the Reformation could also be argued as the Roman Catholic church having strayed from the faith in important matters left the Reformers little choice. There were attempts to keep the church together back then, which failed, and now there are attempts to keep the church together, despite its differences within.

      2. Mark Turner avatar
        Mark Turner

        I think the clue is in the title of the movement – they were seeking the re-formation based on orthodox, scriptural truths, brining the church back from progressive divergence into, inter alia, indulgences, clergy power, wealth and control. They were not making the case for new doctrinal/scriptural departures in my view and therefore the comparison of the current progressive momentum in the minority of the global.anglican communion to reformation is not valid. The main similarity is that it is causing a schism (not those.seeking to continue with established doctrine), which the Reformation was from the RC church, but based on scripture / creed – a re-formation rather than “progressive”?

  15. Lottie E Allen avatar

    Thank you for your well written and incisive assessment. We are revisiting the 1820s and 30s and the debate on the Abolition of Slavery. Then people who called themselves Christians argued, from the texts of Holy Scripture, for the preservation of slavery. They sought to treat non white people as second class human beings. We are in the same place. Conservative Evangelicals are interpreting Holy Scripture to seek to second class members of the LGBTQ+ communities in the same way in which their ancestors abused Scripture to second slaves. “There is nothing new under the sun”. This is not a matter of morality. It is a matter of justice. They lost then. They are going to lose now. The narrative arc of Justice in Holy Scripture is the thin and holy ground on which we stand. We are not going to be bullied into silnece.

  16. Simon Cawdell avatar
    Simon Cawdell

    Naturally this spins facts. So for example the EGGS vote to introduce the additional clauses from CEEC was brought in precisely as a number of known revisionists were claiming that they represented the hidden majority of evangelicals and attending meeting and speaking quite often on that basis. On a day when a significant number of known orthodox members were absent (to the extent that leadership members informed me of their concerns) EGGS voted 90% in favour of an orthodox position on sexuality, but phrased it so nobody had to resign, but that it would come in from the date of the next Synod opening. I think only about 13 EGGS members left out of around 150. I remember the debate well. It was scrupulously chaired with contributions from both sides alternating. In practice this meant that almost all those proposing a liberal position were invited to speak, as against a small proportion of the traditionalists.

    Its take on the synod elections is farcical. Does the author really think that the electorate are so stupid they don’t know who they were voting for? Certainly the clergy know their colleagues very well, and an analysis of election addresses accurately indicated the way people voted subsequently in practice

    The article also fails to mention the probably unlawful use of Canon B5.1/5.2 as a means for introducing the new liturgy, despite legal advice to the contrary (as revealed by +Southwell & Nottingham), the extraordinary closeness of the voting in GS, the obvious divisions within the Synod, and the fact that EGGS has offered the liberals the possibility of full SSM now should they choose to do so in the context of a differentiated structure. It also ignores the fact that liberals are calling for the abolition of the safeguards for those opposed to the ordination of women to the episcopate, and the aggressive attempts of some to use safeguarding procedures against orthodox clergy. Its a bit of a joke its published in ‘ViaMedia.’ One sided media would be a better call.

    1. Lizzie Taylor avatar
      Lizzie Taylor

      The take on the General Synod elections is fair. You may not be aware that keeping quiet in election addresses/hustings about views on equality for women and/or sexuality is a well-worn path that (there’s written evidence that) conservative evangelical candidates have gone down for at least the last decade. Furthermore, if every elector somehow knew the views by some other irregular means, why then were candidates advised to keep quiet about them?

      Just think about it – Christian leaders, telling other Christians, to withhold information from electors, which they know in their hearts the electors would want to know about before deciding on which General Synod candidate to vote for.

      Sometimes the candidates are standing primarily so they can influence the Church’s future on an issue like sexuality or women. Then these candidates keep that motive and their position hidden from electors, in order that the electors won’t be aware of the views that are likely to inform a General Synod rep’s voting pattern.

      Doesn’t that dishonesty shock you, even a tiny bit?

    2. Helen King avatar
      Helen King

      Nobody is saying the electorate is ‘stupid’, and of course the electorate for the House of Clergy are likely to know each other. But those for the House of Laity? How are deanery synod members likely to know all those standing? So they read the election addresses and the hustings statements. And those don’t even need to give the name of the church the candidate attends, so there’s very little outside info on what someone really thinks. If the statement says ‘I’m committed to women’s ministry’ does that mean ‘only allowing them to speak to groups of women and children’? If it says ‘Living in Love is an important process and I will listen carefully to all points of view’ does that really mean ‘My congregation hasn’t engaged with the LLF resources and I am going to vote against anything that suggests lesbian and gay people can be in committed relationships’?

  17. Paul avatar
    Paul

    I think this a broadly accurate record of events, but a complete misunderstanding of the background. Far from revealing a careful plan to dismember the CofE, it shows that evangelicals have been consistently on the back foot and unable to imagine that blessings for same-sex couples could ever occur – and they have failed to plan accordingly. In 2021 there were lots of Zoom calls saying, “I can’t believe this is happening! What shall we do? Do you have a plan? I don’t have a plan – I’ve been busy running a church!”

    It should be no surprise that Evangelicals will not submit to leaders who teach that gay sex is holy. I don’t know any Evangelicals who believe that women’s ordination endangers people’s souls; we all believe gay sex does.

    This has been clear in the writings of all the major evangelical leaders: David Watson, Michael Green and David Holloway wrote their book “The church and homosexuality” in 1980; making it clear that evangelicals who support women’s ordination would not be able to be in union with those who oppose the historic Christian teaching on sexual ethics. J I Packer, John Stott, Nicky Gumbel -they’ve all written on it. This is not a niche new idea.

    Evangelicals who support women’s ordination genuinely thought the line was secure under Welby. Gumbel, Coates et al were recruiting people to join synod to “Back Justin”. Evangelicals who oppose women’s ordination had more doubts about Welby, but the HTB network kept telling them off for criticising him.

    Gumbel seems to have begun to realise he could no longer count on Welby after the February Synod, but even shortly before the November Synod he was saying “There is no Plan B, we have to stop the plans in November.”

    This failed and they are now re-actively trying to work out how to stay in the Church of England when they no longer trust or respect the bishops with the weightiest possible thing: the eternal destiny of people made in God’s image.

    1. Helen King avatar
      Helen King

      Thank you for that interesting analysis. But I think you need to be careful to use the wording ‘conservative evangelicals’ as it’s clear not all of those who’d identify as evangelicals think the same. The ‘Inclusive Evangelicals’ group with their Facebook page and blog are apparently still growing in numbers.

      1. Simon Cawdell avatar
        Simon Cawdell

        They have in fact been around a long time but under different guises. There was (and perhaps still is) a group on GS calling themselves ‘Affirming Evangelicals’. In fact they largely consisted of revisionists with an evangelical past history, but who left the stable a long time ago. A reading of the names on the list of the new group seems to indicate they are the same people, so you will find that those maintaining the line are somewhat sceptical about the evangelical credentials of those who have either changed their minds, or who are liberals who have chosen to self identify as ‘Inclusive Evangelicals’ seemingly to boost the numbers.

      2. Simon Friend avatar
        Simon Friend

        Re Simon Cawdell comment – “group on GS calling themselves ‘Affirming Evangelicals’. In fact they largely consisted of revisionists with an evangelical past history, but who left the stable a long time ago”.

        Simon what an extraordinary comment to make about people like me who you dismiss with this sort of response. I was at the EGGS meeting / vote where I subsequently felt I had to resign, in effect forced to leave and though I fully appreciate you can speak to your own experience it is extremely irritating when you claim to be able to speak to mine.

        As far as leaving the “Stable” I’m afraid this says much about how one side seeks to maintain control out of perhaps a fear that the group identity will somehow be compromised. It’s a shrinking world view and actually very hurtful. Another man of the cloth responded to my tweet on this subject with “Accept or leave”. Really?

        Those of us who are affirming evangelicals don’t want anyone to leave; have proposed Opt In to protect conscience of those who in good faith can’t offer PLF; and have met many times with CEEC etc in facilitated conversations to try and find a way forward which does not split the church.

        As for your suggestion that many of us are not in effect true evangelicals from the right “stable” – well that’s just plain wrong. I myself was brought up in Brethren Chapel, attended a Methodist based school, been part of churches like St Aldates, Holy Trinity Brompton, St Andrews Cullompton, camped for many years at New Wine, been on PCC’s of those churches for countless years. I completed a second degree in theology at Spurgeons. You have absolutely no basis to dismiss me and others in the way you have.

        We simply read scripture on this particular issue in a way which is different to you and that is after years of prayerful study and discussion and biblical reflection. I’m sorry you find that so hard to accept. But I will continue to follow Jesus and his Gospel of Good News, grace and radical inclusion for all.

      3. Simon Cawdell avatar
        Simon Cawdell

        Simon, Firstly on this day may I wish you a very happy new year and many blessing to come within it. I have obviously touched a nerve with my comment, and I think I should unpack it a bit. Firstly I hope I was careful in my comments on ‘Affirming Evangelicals’ to use the qualification ‘very largely’ which does not mean ‘all.’ You may chose to decide it applies to you or not as you wish, but as you are clearly objecting to the use for yourself I am happy to understand that does not apply to you. That does not undermine my analysis. As I looked into the AF meeting I was genuinely surprised to find there a number of people who were leaders of ‘Inclusive Church’ and who I would be very surprised to know that they had ever defined themselves as ‘evangelical’ in any objective sense of the term. That brings me to my second point which is the means of definition. Self definition is of course always an option, but as we have seen in various cultural questions of the moment this has significant problems attached to it (said without prejudice to any possible answer in the other issues of the day). The alternative is group or insititutional definition, which is also used in many circumstances and largely without dispute. The issue being addressed by EGGS in the debate at that time was whether it should recognise the clauses introduced by CEEC regarding an evangelical position on human sexuality which it regarded as definitional. By a 90% majority it chose to do so. Up to that point EGGS had not ruled on the issue and anyone defining themselves as ‘Evangelical’ and and member of EGGS on GS could have turned up and voted. The issue that raises for me is that if I found myself in a minority of that proportion I would ask myself whether, a. I was wrong and needed to amend my view in line with the majority definition, or b. Whether I was reasonable in understanding myself within the label I had adopted. I simply cannot see any other alternative that is coherent, though I acknowledge that facing that would be painful. Now I accept that clearly you take a different view. I respect that, but it does leave me asking the questions, why you find the label ‘evangelical’ of importance to yourself, and what you believe defines the term. Thirdly I am sorry to hear that you were addressed by a colleague in ungracious terms. That is simply wrong and I would not endorse anyone using such unkindness. I have over the years called people out on it when they have said such things to me (eg when I was Gen Sec of Fulcrum). Fourthly I do respect the motive of fellow Christians who believe that a change on doctrine on human sexuality is about a new interpretation for the mission of the church in this age, but after years of consideration I remain concerned that such a change is contrary to scripture and tradition, and I cannot therefore accept it. Indeed the evidence from churches where a change has been made is not encouraging in terms of their mission and membership. Sorry if that is rather a long reply, but I did want to unpack a little in response to your considered response to me.

      4. David Runcorn avatar
        David Runcorn

        This is a response to Simon Cawdell’s comment – I cannot find a reply box for him. Greetings Simon. Our paths have not crossed for a while but I am not a stranger to you and you once reviewed one of my books very positively. You have me down here as one of the ex-evangelicals falsely using the word new to boost numbers. Really rather unpleasant. Can I encourage you to spend some time on the ie website – it does seem pretty full of people who look and sound suspiciously like evangelicals to me. Here I simply want to ask – do you really think it is not possible that you know people who are just as committed to scripture and evangelical faith as you – but who have come to different conclusions from you as to what the text teaches? That might include – creation /evolution, divorce/re-marriage, ministry of women – and of course the present debate. But on evangelical identity – you are not the gate keeper. Nor is CEEC. Like Nic, I am as evangelical, biblical and orthodox as you – and always have been.

      5. Simon Cawdell avatar
        Simon Cawdell

        Dear David, Firstly may I wish you a very happy new year and many blessings within it. I don’t want to repeat much that I have just said within the reply I have just made to Simon Friend which I suggest you might wish to read. I am sorry you find my view as expressed here ‘unpleasant.’ I never wish to be that, but I think there is a real discussion to be had about definitions and boundaries, and I don’t think we should or can duck it, not least as there is a rather unedifying numbers game being played where revisionists (on HS) are repeatedly suggesting that those opposed to change are a ‘tiny minority’ of the church. That is clear gaslighting. The numbers just don’t support that view, certainly if you regard GS membership as some indication. Minorities of 42% (clergy) and 48% (laity) are not ‘tiny.’ Again I point you to my questions to Simon Friend. I think the issue for me is why some people wish to cling to a particular label with such ferocity. In the end I am not defined by being ‘evangelical’ ‘catholic’ ‘charismatic’ or even ‘Salopian’, ‘English’ or ‘British’ but who I am in Christ, and I would be surprised if you did not agree. I wouldn’t respect you less for however you sub-defined within that category! Sadly whereas up until recently how labels were defined wasn’t an issue, but now that there are people aggressively suggesting that those opposed to change are a minority even among ‘evangelicals’ when the two bodies (CEEC and EGGS)which over the years have been open to membership to all who used that label (and which contain a wide variety of views on many subjects) have on careful consideration ruled on what they see as an orthodox position (by huge majorities) on human sexuality I think that carries some weight, and dismissing it so slightly is a somewhat unworthy response. As for me I think that my brothers and sisters with different views on many subjects enrich me through their conversation, but when they start self defining labels I take a step back and look at the evidence, as I think everyone should. I hope that isn’t ‘unpleasant’ again as it is certainly not intended to be. I would be interested to hear your views on how we define, and in the meantime peace and blessing be with you. Simon

      6. Paul avatar
        Paul

        Hi Helen,

        I carefully referred not to all evangelicals, just to those I know personally and the major leaders. Apart from those (like Welby and Croft) who owe their power to promotion within the church, I can’t think of any generally recognised Evangelical leaders who support same sex marriage.

        Whatever the truth of that, “Conservative Evangelicals” is definitely the wrong term. It has long been understood to refer to those aligned with St Helens – heirs of Dick Lucas, complementarian and Calvinist. The new Rebel Alliance is vastly broader than that. “Conservative Evangelical” is not a description of the heirs of David Watson, Michael Green, John Collins, etc. They are charismatic and egalitarian. Amy Orr-Ewing and Ian Paul are not Conservative Evangelicals!

        Graham Kings published an influential article in Anvil in 2003 laying out what he saw as three sectors of UK Anglican Evangelicals. It received broad recognition as a good description: Conservative, Open, and Charismatic Evangelicals. He said Conservative Evangelicals looked to Packer and Lucas. Open Evangelicals looked to George Carey, David Sheppard, James Jones, Anthony Thiselton, Michael Nazir Ali, Vivienne Faull. Charismatic Evangelicals looked to David Watson, John Collins, Graham Cray, Nicky Gumbel, Graham Dow.

        The current Rebel Alliance is drawn from all three sectors and beyond. It reflects a very broad consensus. Insisting on calling them all Conservative Evangelicals feels like a rhetorical power play to downplay the broadness of the opposition. This is your blog, so you can do it if you want to – but I don’t think it is the sort of honest speech which we need to help us find our way forward.

  18. Alison Inglis-Jones avatar
    Alison Inglis-Jones

    Super interesting, thank you. I am interested in the use of the words ‘all biblical and all committed to orthodoxy’. I am a supporter of same sex marriage and can sign up to the 39 articles of faith of the Church of England. I believe I am orthodox. The suggestion that I am somehow not orthodox because I disagree with other members of the Church of England on this one issue is an intensely irritative narrative and I resent the use of the word to define themselves.

    1. Peter Wilton avatar
      Peter Wilton

      Yes – there was a recent article to the effect that in the Anglican tradition orthodoxy is a matter of Scripture, worked on in the early church (Tradition), culminating in the catholic creeds, which speak of God as incarnate and as Trinity. The 39 Articles imply that this is enjoined on Anglican Christians, but that we are not required to believe more. Therefore this discussion is not a matter of orthodoxy or heterodoxy, but of legitimate disagreement. Part of the reason is that many in the Church of England don’t like the post-Hooker Anglican settlement, and would like a different one.

      I find it the “horror” attached to this debate in the Church of England rather strange. It’s as if no other church (including other parts of the Anglican church) had ever considered the matter before; yet we know that other parts of the church have considered the matter and introduced changes to their practice. The Church of England discussion is conducted as if this had not already happened. In my lifetime, British secular politics have often been conducted in a similar fashion, whereby matters that have long been settled elsewhere are still treated as unthinkable here.

  19. Contemplative Mission avatar

    Thanks, Nic, for outlining what has been happening. Not everyone will be aware of the long trajectory of the conservative evangelicals to either take over the CofE (dates back of course to the Keele conference in the mid 1960s) or failing that to create a new Church, because that’s what they want. If the CofE was not established they would have already done that, I suspect. It might have been better if it wasn’t and they had! Changes like further marriage after divorce, ordination of women, women bishops, and LGBTQI are cumulatively all too much. There’s nothing much left now to resist, expect the euthanasia debate which is the next big thing on the horizon, I suppose. By the way, conservative evangelicals cannot in all honesty call themselves Anglican because Anglican tradition puts scripture, tradition and reason on an equal level, not one above the other. And that goes back, consistently, all the way to Hooker, and indeed, to Cranmer and the BCP.

    1. Paul avatar
      Paul

      I’m genuinely curious about how you would make the case that BCP puts tradition, scripture and reason on the same level as each other. It seems to me that the 39 Articles teach that scripture is supremely authoritative:

      V!. Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation: so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man, that it should be believed as an article of the Faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation. In the name of the Holy Scripture we do understand those canonical Books of the Old and New Testament, of whose authority was never any doubt in the Church.

      XIX. Of the Church.
      The visible Church of Christ is a congregation of faithful men, in which the pure Word of God is preached, and the Sacraments be duly ministered according to Christ’s ordinance, in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same.

      As the Church of Jerusalem, Alexandria, and Antioch, have erred, so also the Church of Rome hath erred, not only in their living and manner of Ceremonies, but also in matters of Faith.

      XX. Of the Authority of the Church.
      The Church hath power to decree Rites or Ceremonies, and authority in Controversies of Faith: and yet it is not lawful for the Church to ordain any thing that is contrary to God’s Word written, neither may it so expound one place of Scripture, that it be repugnant to another. Wherefore, although the Church be a witness and a keeper of Holy Writ, yet, as it ought not to decree any thing against the same, so besides the same ought it not to enforce any thing to be believed for necessity of Salvation.

      XXI. Of the Authority of General Councils.

      General Councils may not be gathered together without the commandment and will of Princes. And when they be gathered together, (forasmuch as they be an assembly of men, whereof all be not governed with the Spirit and Word of God,) they may err, and sometimes have erred, even in things pertaining unto God. Wherefore things ordained by them as necessary to salvation have neither strength nor authority, unless it may be declared that they be taken out of holy Scripture.

  20. John Davies avatar
    John Davies

    As a Christian who grew up in the charismatic movement, I can assure you the ideas outlined in the main article were there long, long before 2010. I started encountering them in the mid 70’s, admittedly coming from a slightly different angle, but with the basic message of either taking over churches who did not believe the fundamentally neo – pentecostal (or warmed up brethrenism) being promoted, or leaving and forming splinter churches. If they succeeded in taking over a church, then they would only pay parish shares to dioscese whose dogmas they approved of. Likewise the policy of hiding their true colours, to obtain ordination qualifications or a post was also accepted – perfectly acceptable to employ deceit, it seems as the end justified the means. And now, sadly, it has come to this. To quote Oliver Cromwell, “I adjure you, by the bowels of Christ, to consider that you may be wrong.”

  21. gilesbradley avatar
    gilesbradley

    It is not the faithful partner who can be justly accused of splitting up the marriage but the adulterous one.

    1. Helen King avatar
      Helen King

      Giles, has it occurred to you, as you blithely use the analogy of divorce, that not all divorces involve adultery?

      1. Ian Paul avatar

        Giles is not claiming that all divorces involve adultery. He is pointing out that, where that has occurred, it is not the faithful partner who is responsible for the problems that arise.

  22. Ian Paul avatar

    In case people are interested in actual facts, here is a full account of what CEEC has been doing which shows why this article is mistaken at several levels.
    https://www.psephizo.com/sexuality-2/have-evangelicals-made-secret-plans-to-split-the-church/

    1. Helen King avatar
      Helen King

      Well now, seems odd for Andrew to criticise Nic for not talking about the St Hugh’s Conversations when they were private until very late in the process when those of us present were given permission to admit they existed. There is nothing in the public domain about them to which Nic or others could refer. As far as I can see I am one of the few who, once permission was given, mentioned them and I don’t know of any traditional evangelical mention in a public forum. https://shared-conversations.com/2023/09/15/two-meetings-down-one-to-go-living-with-difference/

      1. Simon Cawdell avatar
        Simon Cawdell

        On the other hand you have made it clear that you did make them public (with permssion) and therefore it is surprising Nic wasn’t aware of them. The premise of Nic’s article is very much how the wicked evangelicals are tryingto split the church. The conversations and quite a lot of evidence are making it clear how evangelicals are trying to ensure that there is an ongoing space for them in the Church of England, and indeed for those who take a different view on Human Sexuality. The reality is its a generous response to maintain the maximum level of unity.

      2. Helen King avatar
        Helen King

        All I could say was that they existed and suggest the broad thrust of them from when I was involved (not the whole life of the SHC), plus as I was not allowed to say who said what there was very little that could enter the public domain. The same is true of the Living With Difference conversations last year – again, mix of positions, some interesting and revealing comments, but protocols meant the details couldn’t be shared. As Nic wasn’t at the SHC (am I even allowed to say that? The list of those present has never to my knowledge been made public) it wasn’t for him to comment.

      3. Andrew Godsall avatar
        Andrew Godsall

        It is interesting that Ian Paul talks about ‘actual facts’. He makes a statement on his one blog that Archbishop Justin has stated publicly that he no longer believes the Church’s doctrine of marriage. When I have asked Ian to provide evidence for that he simply deletes my question. Three times. So much for actual facts on his blog.

  23. Jonathan Clatworthy avatar

    Thanks Nic for spelling this out. A few comments.
    1) I was involved in the case against the Anglican Covenant, an issue that raged from 2002 to 2012. The arguments in favour of a split, the plans to provoke a split, etc, were much the same as you describe here. Week after week ‘Crisis in the Church’ was the headline in the Church of England Newspaper.
    2) I think gay sex is not the fundamental issue. The fundamental issue is the desire to see themselves as belonging to a superior elite rejecting the big bad world around them. Those who have this desire characteristically fall out with each other because they have different red lines. When I was a university chaplain I saw 18-year-olds surrounded by thousands of other 18-year-olds, away from home, with nobody giving them any discipline. Such people could be rescued by Christian Unions or Islamic equivalents giving them black-and-white certainties. The international Anglican conference at Kuala Lumpur in 1997 decided to focus on opposing gay sex because it was the best way to unite Evangelicals. When they move on they will find something else to denounce.
    3) In support of 2) above, just look at the comments to your article. The anti-gay contributors don’t argue their case. They just claim to uphold ‘orthodoxy’ or the Bible. They know perfectly well that it is only their interpretation of orthodoxy and the Bible that they are appealing to. Their arguments in LLF are just the same. In the past I have tried and tried to elicit from Ian Paul an explanation of why he so strongly appeals to the Bible’s commands on gay sex while openly revealing that he shaves his beard contrary to Leviticus 19:27. I never got an answer. In this, he is typical of his constituency. Ditto women who speak in public, people who get interest on their bank accounts, etc.
    4) You occasionally refer to our opponents as ‘orthodox’ or ‘conservative’. Of course they want to present themselves as such, but I don’t think we should let them get away with it.

  24. Steve Crick avatar
    Steve Crick

    I suppose it is not possible to leave something you have never really been a part off. I am working class, so you understand what it is like to attend church but never really be a part of it. Is there a movement for the ordination of the working class. No. Is ordination even scriptural? Where is the church voice on societies acceptance on food banks and usury! As a member of the working class, you are told to listen to your betters! Listen to those who have benefited from a university education. For most of my life, I have been subjected to church teaching obsessed with sex. Originally, it was clear, don’t have sex outside of marriage. Don’t get divorced. Don’t be gay. More recently it has been. It’s ok, have sex with whoever you like, come to church for a blessing. Those of us who are simple and lack a university education find this advice confusing, even contradictory! Why come and listen, when your betters can’t even agree and be consistent in their teaching. I think, I will spend my Sunday, doing the shopping and watching the footie. It is not like we will be missed if we don’t come, because no one ever really wanted the great unwashed turning up to their churches anyway. Probably, the next time I will turn up to a inner city church is to help convert it into a block of flats for some very wealthy person to live in. The basic question I have for you, is what sort of fool do you take me for, I am certainly not going to follow a shepherd who is ultimately lost themselves. I am better off on my own! The church has been around for a long long time, but is definitely showing signs of spiritual confusion and dementia!

    1. Helen King avatar
      Helen King

      I don’t have the time or expertise to reply to all your useful comments but would draw your attention to this private member’s motion that is top of the list to come to General Synod…

      The Revd Alex Frost (Blackburn) to move

      ‘That this Synod welcome the work that has already been done to encourage the ministry of people from working class backgrounds, and request the Ministry Development Board to go further in developing a national strategy for the encouragement, development and support of vocations, lay and ordained, of people from working class backgrounds and report back to Synod to debate that strategy within 12 months.’

Any thoughts?